that's really what the problem is in terms of the deficit. we have this debt that's still exploding, part of the policy uncertainty. the more we can -- >> i think my point also is, wouldn't we be seeing more signs that whatever the fed has done, may have been working better had washington not shot us all in the foot? >> i think it's -- i think it's the whole policy package to the. the fed has been very interventionist if you like. they're trying to do a good job, i think it's not helping. but also we've had the stimulus packages, a whole wide range of things like this which has been a drag. >> we have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us this morning. it's been a pleasure. >> a lot of fun. >> thank you. >> come back. >> next time you'll have kernen -- he won't give you a hard time. >> not as bad as you. >> coming up, two very big interviews that you can only see right here on "squawk." former treasury secretary robert rubin. he's in the green room now. he's going to join us on the "squawk" set. we'll talk about the economy, big